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bofus View Drop Down
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  Quote bofus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Brakes with Suspension Upgrade
    Posted: 14-Jun-2010 at 19:30
According to my Bently manual, the 4.0 liter from 2002 and later had two brake options: one for 16" wheels, one for 17" wheels. I have the 17" Madras, so I THOUGHT that should be pretty cut and dry. For those that don't know, the manual shows:

16" Wheel:
Caliper: HP2
Number of Pads: 4 per front wheel
Brake disc diameter: 321 mm
Brake disc thickness: 30mm
Brake piston diameter: 43mm

17" Wheel:
Caliper: 2FN
Number of Pads: 2 per front wheel
Brake disc diameter: 334 mm
Brake disc thickness: 32mm
Brake piston diameter: 42mm


I looked at my brakes today and find that I have the 4-pad HP2 type of calipers. It appears that either my dealer swapped all the parts out when I had the brakes done a few years ago (not very likely?) or perhaps not all W8 cars with the suspension upgrades got the bigger brakes?

I'm having squealing and replaced the 4-pad dealer ones and still have a squeal. I normally grease the back of pads on installation, but the Bentley does not mention this step. The outer pads have some sort of double-stick tape on it that I'm guessing it supposed to prevent movement. Also, the pads I took out had anti-squeal shims glued on them and the new ones didn't. The Bentley doesn't mention these and so I didn't transfer those onto the new pads.

I'm thinking about ordering a rotor/pad combo from R1 to rid myself of the noise. It only happens when puling into the garage or up to gates in parking garages. Embarrassing.



Edited by bofus - 15-Jun-2010 at 17:18
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  Quote rustybronco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2010 at 20:02
2FN was not available in the US, only in Europe. They sound pretty awesome, but from what I've heard the 2FN has had some reliability issues?

For what it's worth, there's debate whether suspension is actually different too. (I know, I know... not THIS again).
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  Quote TheAutoTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2010 at 22:40
Yea, I thought the 2FN only came in Euro too. It's an upgrade, but not a huge one from the looks of the brake sizes. I know for sure I have the HP2 brakes, as I just did mine.

If you get a good set of brake pads you shouldn't need to tape or glue shims onto them. A good set will have the shims stamped onto the backing plates and not be separate pieces. When I got my Hawk HPS pads the shims were already on, all I needed was to lube them. As far as lubing brake components goes, you should be doing it for every car. When I do a brake job here's what I lube:

Caliper slides (generally it's just the pins)
Backs of the brake pads
Brake pad slides

Before I lube mine I always give them a good cleaning with brake cleaner. I've lubed all of my brake jobs the same way and have yet to have any that squeal. You need to break them in properly too by burning them in, this will prevent squealing also.

I would HIGHLY recommend you order your brakes from R1 Concepts. I was able to get their premium blank rotors front and rear along with Hawk HPS pads front and rear and black G2 brake caliper paint kit for like 505 shipped. IMO the premium rotors are really worth the extra money for the powdercoated veins and hats. Looks so much nicer and won't be rusty down the road. Also, this will make the rotors last much longer too. R1 Concepts had the stuff to my door about 5 days after I ordered it too. Great people to work with. If you're going to order, call in and order because they can generally get you a cheaper deal than their website.
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  Quote bofus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2010 at 17:18
So, do the pads from R1 Concepts include the wire for the pad thickness sensor thing? They have a bunch of different pad compounds on the R1 website, I suppose I could call them and see what they recommend. Why did you choose the Hawk HPS over the others?

I'm not sure what you mean by lubing the brake pad slides. Do you mean where the anti-rattle clips makes contact with the top of the pads?

I am going to pull the wheel off and have another gander, but I think I might have a slightly sticky piston in one caliper that isn't pressing as hard as it should onto the pad, causing the one pad to vibrate. It seems to me that with 4 pads per caliper, you have a lot more potential for noise as there are more parts vibrating around.
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  Quote TheAutoTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2010 at 18:57
It depends on which pads you get. Some of them have sensors and some don't. I bought the ones without as they are cheaper and I HATE the break wear sensors. They start warning you when you still have like 6mm of pad left which is like 10,000 miles early. I simply disabled the wear sensor and inspect them myself.

I went with the Hawk HPS's because they are tried and true. I used them on my RX-7 and loved them. Little dust, quiet, great stopping power and they're reasonably cheap. HPS = high performance street, meaning they are great for someone looking for a little more bite without all the dust and noise of a track pad.

As far as the brake pad slides yes, I'm talking about the anti-rattle clips that they sit in. The W8 does not have these though IIRC, as I don't remember seeing them anywhere on my car when I did my brakes.

As far as the noise goes, you shouldn't have any as long as your brakes are in order. Only time I've had vibration issues was with missing anti-rattle clips (letting the pad flop around) or if a caliper bolt was not tight or missing. Other than that I've had no brake or vibration issues with my W8.
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  Quote B5crazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2010 at 12:45
I beleive there is way to upgrade the front brakes with parts from a T-reg. There were a few discussions on Passat world.
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  Quote TheAutoTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2010 at 19:57
IIRC the Touraeg brakes require some custom machining or something along those lines to make them fit correctly. I searched all over PassatWorld about W8 brake upgrades and all I was told is that there was a way to use S4 brakes and upgrade from there but it would have involved changing wheels, different steering knuckles, etc. etc. and just didn't seem to be worth the time or money.
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  Quote B5crazy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2010 at 08:05
Did you read this?

[QUOTE=TheAutoTech] IIRC the Touraeg brakes require some custom machining or something along those lines to make them fit correctly. I searched all over PassatWorld about W8 brake upgrades and all I was told is that there was a way to use S4 brakes and upgrade from there but it would have involved changing wheels, different steering knuckles, etc. etc. and just didn't seem to be worth the time or money.

Edited by B5crazy - 18-Jun-2010 at 08:06
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  Quote bofus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2010 at 14:15
Ordered a set of pads and rotors (front and rear) from R1 and have issues. I ordered the premium blank rotors and the Hawk HPS pads with sensors. The pads shipped have no shims of any sort on them, the fronts have no wear-indicator wires on them, the fronts didn't ship with any anti-squeal grease, and the rears don't have wear indicators either; though, I'm not sure if the rears are supposed to have the wires as I've not dismantled the rears or looked at the manual to verify.

I've sent R1 an email asking what I'm supposed to do. I was quite clear I wanted the sensors and was assured they would come with all the shims on the backs of the pads. Alas, my set is void of all of that hardware.

Disappointed so far.
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  Quote TheAutoTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jun-2010 at 14:42
Originally posted by bofus

Ordered a set of pads and rotors (front and rear) from R1 and have issues. I ordered the premium blank rotors and the Hawk HPS pads with sensors. The pads shipped have no shims of any sort on them, the fronts have no wear-indicator wires on them, the fronts didn't ship with any anti-squeal grease, and the rears don't have wear indicators either; though, I'm not sure if the rears are supposed to have the wires as I've not dismantled the rears or looked at the manual to verify.

I've sent R1 an email asking what I'm supposed to do. I was quite clear I wanted the sensors and was assured they would come with all the shims on the backs of the pads. Alas, my set is void of all of that hardware.

Disappointed so far.


My pads did not have any shims either and I ordered the same sets. I know for sure the fronts don't have shims because the pads don't have any sort of metal slides. IIRC the rear doesn't have metal slides for the pads either, which is also why they aren't shimmed. Some pads just plain don't use shims because they aren't needed. IIRC, the pads I took off the car didn't have any either. Generally they only have shims if they have the metal wear indicators that squeek when they touch the rotor, which the W8 does not use. I can assure you though that my set of HPS's did not have shims either, and my brakes have been perfect with no squeeks or issues.

As far as the wear sensors go, the rears do not use those as the rear brakes are the same as all other Passats. The fronts have them only if you get the pads that supply them. I know there are two different options for the HPS's, with and without. I ordered without because IMO they're worthless. My previous pads had 6mm of pad left on them and it was already telling me to replace them. I simply deactivated the wear sensor in the cluster and chose to replace them when I want to, not when the car wants me to. Also, it costs extra for those pads anyways, not worth the money to me.

The only thing that should come with the pads are the grease kits. Each one should have 1 pack of lube, but in all honesty one pack should be able to do all the pads. You don't need a ton of it and all the extra will just wash off eventually. I used one whole pack and only a tiny bit of the second. I used Napa SylGlide for my slides because the grease is supposed to just be for the back and ends of the pads.

What you should have done if you didn't was call them. I was able to get about 30 bucks off my price and was able to confirm all my part numbers and parts since I did. I had no issues with R1 Concepts and highly recommend them. Just call and tell them that they sent you the wrong front pads and I'm sure they'd be more than happy to sent another set out promptly. They seem like very courtesy guys and if you haven't noticed, they're the only place that even lists the right size and type of brakes for a W8. Everywhere else just lumps all the sizes into one category an d most of the time they aren't even right.
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